can I ask my partner to stop eating Soylent?

Can I ask my partner to stop eating so much Soylent? The answer to that question involves pre-chopped garlic, slam poetry, and a little bit of cannibalism.

Advice for and from the Future is hosted by Ozzy Llinas Goodman and Julia Furlan, and produced by Siona Peterous. Additional production on this episode by Nathan Wizard. Spoken word poet Kyle Sangdozzian was played by Brent Rose. Our executive producer is Rose Eveleth. Our production manager is Michael Kamel. The theme music is by Also, Also, Also. The logo is by Frank Okay. Additional music by Blue Dot Sessions.

You can find us on Instagram at @advice4futureu. If you have a question for or from the future, email it to us at ask@futureadvice.club.

TRANSCRIPT

[Theme song plays]

Ozzy: Welcome to advice for and from the future. I’m Ozzy Llinas Goodman, and I just wanted to let you know that it is okay to eat an entire bag of hot Cheetos for dinner. That’s my position.

Julia: Hell yes. And I’m Julia Furlan, and I wanted to let you know that sometimes I genuinely wonder what the real difference is between the bird seed that I put in the bird feeder and the trail mix that I eat.

Ozzy: That’s a great question. Something to look into further. Well, if you haven’t guessed already, today we’re talking about meal replacements and food. So if that’s the kind of thing that you need to avoid, go ahead and skip this episode. No hard feelings. Otherwise, stick around to hear what showed up in our time machine this week.

Julia: [Makes futurey sound effects with her voice] That’s the time machine.

Siona: My partner and I have been dating for the past two years. At first, we bonded over our shared love of food. We both love cooking, trying new things, and finding hole in the wall restaurants. We also live together and go for amazing bike rides, which I love. But recently he’s been getting a lot more into fitness, and he’s started eating meal replacements more and more, especially Soylent, which his coworkers all swear by. The other day he mentioned wanting to switch to eating almost entirely meal replacements. I hate the idea of him just sitting there watching me eat while he’s drinking a beige smoothie. On the other hand, I know that our relationship is more than just our shared love of eating. And I don’t want to police his diet. But isn’t it unhealthy to just not eat food?

Julia: As we begin, I would like to announce that I was four minutes late to this recording because I was looking to purchase some Soylent. And I thought that they sold it at the grocery store and I couldn’t find it. And I’m sad.

Ozzy: Damn. That would have been so exciting if you had brought Soylent into this space.

Julia: I know, I know.

Ozzy: I really just need to share that I thought this entire time that Soylent was named after this movie, Soylent Green, where the food is made of people, and I was like, why? Why would they do that? So everyone just is thinking like it’s made of people, right? Like you named it that because it’s made of people. Even like on the Soylent FAQ page, they have a question, there’s a page called Is Soylent made from People? The answer, according to them, is no.

Julia: Like, I’m just so confused as to why this is the choice. Like, aren’t these people supposed to be like tech bro, smarty pants, blah, blah, blah, brand geniuses or whatever?

Ozzy: I do think there’s something about how, like, they had a good idea that like, Soylent Green is really iconic, but they didn’t really think about how it would probably make people be like, Is this made of humans? Like what? Why is it called that? Since they’ve really brought this up for us, since Soylent creator Rob Rhinehart has brought us all to this place. I really wanted to ask if you had to eat one person, who would it be? Julia, did you think about this question? Do you have an answer?

Julia: Oh but I did. I thought about it.

Ozzy: I would love to hear what your thought process was in answering this question.

Julia: Okay. My first thought process was who is the smallest person? Because I wouldn’t want to eat a person. And then I was like, this seems complicated. I don’t want to get into this. Babies are sweet and don’t don’t need to be eaten. So I’m dying for an eject button from this entire premise. But I’m here to answer.

Ozzy: Yeah. Well, the eject button is just answer the question, and then you can stop talking about it.

Julia: Great, great, great, great. This is great. I can do it. I can do it. I can do it. Maybe Jair Bolsonaro, who, he used to be president of Brazil. And I’m still fucking mad about it. And fortunately lost reelection. Shout out to Lula. But fuck Jair Bolsonaro. I fucking hate him. He’s a neofascist piece of garbage, garbage human being. I’m like. Okay. I would want to eat him. I can’t believe I’m saying this. I would want to eat him because I hate him. Right?

Ozzy: Like, totally. Yes.

Julia: I don’t want to go too far, because if I think about it too much, it’s really going to turn my stomach here. But I just know that he’s someone I have a lot of anger towards and, you know, easy to eat in that sense because I don’t want him to exist.

Ozzy: I mean, one thought that I had is that like, I feel like Guy Fieri would be really delicious because he eats like some of the most delicious, like, comfort food and like, I don’t know. I just feel like, and I have some friends — I also like, don’t eat meat. So this is, I really know nothing about this. But some of my friends that I was talking about this with were like, “Well, no. Like I would really want to eat like a super healthy vegan because that’s like the best meat tends to be like grass fed, like that would taste the best.” But I just like know in my heart that Guy Fieri is delicious.

Julia: I think that’s a good point. Guy Fieri has been like pickling and seasoning himself from the inside out for many, many years.

Ozzy: Exactly. Exactly. You get me. But I don’t want to deprive the world of Guy Fieri, you know? My real answer is I probably would eat Jeff Bezos and I would not enjoy it, but I would do my part. If this is the action, that means Jeff Bezos will not exist anymore, I’ll do it. I’ll eat him.

Julia: Well, you know what? I think it’s just we have to eat the rich. It means literally every single person who is not rich or evil or who just, like, has anti-capitalist values, has to eat at least one rich person.

Ozzy: Okay. So unfortunately, this question isn’t actually about eating people. It’s about meal replacements. So let’s get back to the question. What should this person do about their partner who isn’t trying to eat people but also like, maybe won’t eat real food either?

Julia: Dump him.

Ozzy: I love it.

Julia: I don’t want to be rude, but I just feel like. It’s a short and sweet question, but I have a lot of things that are in there that I’m reacting to. But I think that relationships are about, you know, loving the other person and sort of sharing stuff. And I would say like sleeping, eating and participating in society are things that, like, you would want to do with your boyfriend. And if you eat real regular food and he doesn’t want to eat regular food, I’m just, I think I’m reacting from my own heart which is: No, absolutely not. Like you can eat different kinds of food. There’s like lots of things. But like, I just I can’t see that working for me personally. And because I have no ability to see it differently, I’m just going to go with my own opinion, which is dump him.

Ozzy: Yeah, I love that, strong reaction right off the bat. I think I didn’t quite go that far. I do think my initial response is like, just like make him eat real food. Just like tell him he has to. Which I guess could could lead to a breakup if he’s just like, “No, I won’t.”

Julia: Yeah. And I mean I think that there’s an amount like, my first instinct is dump him. But then my second instinct is like, okay, if we’re really going to get into it, there’s got to be some way for some sort of compromise to happen. And I don’t think that anyone should be forced to eat meal replacements. But if that is his culture, I guess like if if.

Ozzy: It’s, if he’s a tech bro, that is his culture.

Julia: God, that’s another. I’m like, just dump him! Put on your running shoes. Get to the door, get out of the room and the building and then just keep running like Forrest Gump run across the entire country. No, I think you’re right. There is like, my first instinct is dump him. My second instinct is like try and find a really decent compromise where the meals that are important to you maybe like, I don’t know. People eat different things for breakfast. Breakfast feels like a sort of like I mean, not for me personally, but like a low stakes meal that people sort of like have in a lot of different ways. So like, maybe he eats a meal replacement for breakfast and then like, dinner is the thing that you say like, okay, you can eat meal replacements every other time, but like a couple of times a week let’s have dinner together. And it’s important to me that you’re not like taking a little Soylent and putting a straw in it. And I’m sitting down to, like, a delicious meal.

Ozzy: Yes, I think that’s fair. And I guess, like, what is like healthy eating and what is disordered or unhealthy eating? Because I really do think it feels to me like only eating Soylent feels like a deeply bad relationship with food to me. But I also like, I wanted to interrogate my own response to that a little bit, because I feel like people have other eating restrictions that I don’t have that response to. And I feel like I’ve experienced versions of this a lot throughout my life. Like I once had a coworker who, like we went out to lunch with the boss and like he refused to eat anything because he only ate protein shakes and had this like very strict dietary regimen and like workout regimen. And I feel like, on the one hand, I always find this like very strange and kind of upsetting, but on the other hand, in the moment, it’s like, I would never say anything about it to them, because I kind of feel uncomfortable when people criticize my eating habits. And so it’s like, I don’t want to be the person who’s like, “Well, that’s fucked up. You only eat protein shakes. Like, what’s wrong with you? What eating disorder do you have?” And it’s like, you know, is this a form of disordered eating? Maybe. But is berating the person going to be like a helpful way to get them to change their behavior? Probably not.

Julia: I also just had a thought, which is that there are lots of people who only eat meal replacements and they’re like, there’s like an ablest argument to saying like, there are people for whom meal replacements are the thing that they’re able to eat, that allows them to be alive in the world. And would I say dump them? No, I would never say that. So like there’s an amount that I have to I think, Ozzy, you have a really good instinct, which is like, we got to interrogate that a little bit more and go a little bit like find that like uncomfortable nuance. And I think that for me, the reason that I have such a strong reaction is like Soylent and other meal replacements used by tech bros, are often a way, they’re marketed as a way of hyper productivity. Which I see as a sort of like the ultimate capitalism juice. It’s like, let me suck down my capitalism juice poison. Yum, yum, yum! My lovely money milkshake happening right now. And so that’s the reaction that I have. And so, like, when it’s imbued with like capitalism, white supremacy, tech culture — that’s one thing. But like, if you just sort of like turn it a little bit in the light and you look at it again and you’re like, well, actually, you know, like my grandmother was able to stay alive for like three years and she had meal replacements and we had like meals together where she was able to, like, have a little bit of food, but she was able to literally be alive, you know. And who am I to say that that’s like not a not a great thing, you know?

Ozzy: Yeah. And I think to your point, like when I was doing research for this episode, a lot of things that came up of people that pretty much only eat Soylent or other meal replacements, it is some kind of very intense like workout sort of weight loss type of regimen. But I did also find a lot of people on Reddit, for example, who said that Soylent helped with their eating disorder because it just gave them something that they don’t have to think about. They don’t have to be like, is this healthy or is it not? They can just like eat a thing and it fills them up and like, it just is sort of easier for them to get that down as opposed to thinking about lots of other things.

Julia: Absolutely.

Ozzy: And a lot of stories of people who said like, I just get way too overwhelmed going to the grocery store. I’m like thinking about preparing a meal and Soylent or something similar has been really helpful for me because I just don’t have to think about it. It’s just like there and I can just eat it. I will say that there’s still that part of me that’s like, I feel like people with executive functioning issues still deserve to eat food if they want to. I don’t know. So I guess I just wanted to talk a little bit more about like social relationships around food, because I definitely am someone who like, I grew up in a family with two working parents and like microwavable meals were a big part of how we fed ourselves when I was growing up, like one-pot meals. Even just like simple things like the pre-chopped garlic that you can get from the grocery store. Like these types of kind of like, innovations I guess you could say.

Julia: Convenience foods.

Ozzy: Yeah, were yeah were really helpful in like us being able to feed ourselves. We didn’t have microwavable meals every day, but that was an important option to have. And I definitely know people who grew up often in like wealthier households where they were able to have like additional help with cooking or where maybe one of their parents didn’t have to work. Who like, find a lot of those things off putting and like maybe not real cooking. Like if you’re just getting the premade salad from the grocery store, that’s not like real food or real cooking in the same way. Yeah. I feel like you’re having a response to this.

Julia: I’m having a response because the word clean is coming back in my head, which is like, anytime somebody is like talking about like, quote unquote, eating clean, for example, that whole idea is like, much more laborious than microwaving something. So like, I feel like cleanliness or like purity, I feel like that’s that’s the reaction that I was having to what you were just saying, Ozzy, which is like if you know somebody, somebody judging, having a microwaved meal, what they’re saying is that it’s like not as pure as taking out all of the ingredients and cooking them and, and that that’s some sort of like, elemental part that needs to be a part of everybody’s life. And I don’t think that’s the case. I think that we need to really, like, interrogate the clean slash, pure slash. Like, I don’t know, those two words always irk me a little bit.

Ozzy: I’m totally on board with you. And I think, like part of what feels valuable to me about some of these things I talked about like pre-chopped garlic. I’m just, I love pre-chopped garlic. It’s a great, great innovation.

Julia: I can go through one of those jars like that, yeah.

Ozzy: Exactly. For me it’s like, those are things that make it easier for me to cook and share a meal with other people and like, allow me to have that social experience of eating with someone even if I don’t have like the mental capacity to chop garlic that day. And I think, like, I don’t know, I when I was doing research for this episode, I just was reading all of these things about how like pretty much all human cultures have some practices around social eating. It’s always been something that’s been both a social activity and like a literal nourishing survival thing. And I think separating that feels wrong to me. Just at some fundamental level, I’m just like, you can’t just, like, do things for survival and like, treat your body like a machine and not have any of the like, social aspects of that. And if you do, how is that impacting the other people in your life?

Julia: Well, in some ways, like the table or the food that we eat and the food that we share, it’s like an extension of our heart. That’s an extension of our love. It’s an extension of our sort of like emotional connection as humans. And to deny someone that is, it feels pretty… it feels kind of… it feels real ice cold. It’s very easy to judge that. I think the thing that I have a memory of is like the mom with the SlimFast. Like I think it’s probably a SlimFast commercial that I have in my head, like the mom with the SlimFast and then the rest of the family eating, cooking a big breakfast and everybody is like eating their meal and mom’s eating SlimFast. And for some reason I see the SlimFast choice as an extension of a patriarchal beauty standard as opposed to an extension of like a horrible tech bro values that I don’t agree with. So I feel compassion for the mom with the SlimFast in a way that I do not feel compassion for the bro with the Soylent.

Ozzy: I mean, that’s fair. There was one study that was done by meal replacement companies that I think it found like something close to 80% of current meal replacement users are men, which is really different from like that sort of SlimFast era like where it was sort of viewed as like a weight loss thing for women. But I also wonder if there’s something about like socially us not recognizing men’s eating disorders as eating disorders where like I think a lot of times men that I’ve known who have really strict eating regimens, it can be viewed as like, it’s like a weight thing, like weightlifting. They’re like doing it for their fitness. It’s very like, “good for their health” in a way, where possibly if someone of another gender were doing that, we might — I might have more of an immediate reaction of like, that feeling like, “You’re putting too much on yourself. Like you should be allowed to eat and enjoy food. And why is that feeling hard for you right now?” And it is definitely true that, like, men’s eating disorders are under-diagnosed and can look very different from women’s eating disorders because of gendered socialization, and we live in a society, et cetera. But yeah, I just I worry that we could be perhaps missing something more going on with this boyfriend because we’re thinking of it as like the tech bro thing and not the like sad housewife with her SlimFast thing.

Julia: [00:20:32] It’s a tricky thing to think about food because we all come to it with so much. You know, it’s like, you would think that it would be simpler because we do eat multiple times a day, every single fucking day. And if we don’t, we keel over. At any particular moment, you’re approaching the food that you eat with a new mind and a new, you know, like anybody who’s tried to sort of like try to do a new thing with their food knows that like, it doesn’t feel new for very long. And we’re always trying to approach like we’re coming to our food with a lot of feelings, a lot of hopes, a lot of our deep twisty, emotional, goopy inner stuff is like coming out in food, kind of food thoughts. And so it’s kind of hard because if I’m doing that for myself, I want everybody to do what’s right for them. Like that’s what I would ideally want. But I see certain things and I judge them, and I am like inherently judgmental about certain things. And that’s rude of me and that’s wrong. You know, I have to work on that.

Ozzy: I don’t know if it’s wrong. I think it’s good for us to, like, recognize that we might have these biases. And I definitely do as well. Like I have sort of an emotional negative reaction to Soylent, that I definitely don’t have with many other things that could be equally as weird but just aren’t associated with tech bros.

Julia: Going back to pleasure, I think that like who — what classes are allowed and invited to have pleasure and which class of people are not, we don’t expect them or allow them to to have as much pleasure. I think these are questions that are going in my mind. But I think that ultimately when I judge the Soylent bros in the like end times hyper capitalist system that we’re imagining. I think that their rejection of pleasure and food feels offensive because they have so much money and so, so much access to other kinds of pleasure that for people who maybe don’t have access to all those kinds of pleasure, it’s like, fuck you. You have all of this and this is what you do? Are you fucking kidding me? Like, it feels like, really galling.

Ozzy: I think that’s a big part of my reaction too. It’s like you’ve accumulated all this wealth and power and what you choose to do with it is like, not eat food. Like how dare you? Give us your money, and also maybe your literal body so that we can eat you.

Julia: I’m so glad you agree with me.

[Advice outro music plays]

Ozzy: That’s all for this week’s advice. Next up, we’re going to listen to some slam poetry that was written by Reddit commenters. But first, a quick break that helps fund my sparkling water addiction.

[Ambient music and crowd chatter]

Host: That was “The Way You Look Tonight,” featuring the musical stylings of a Ring camera. As a reminder, please do not applaud. It scares the poets. Our next set of performers explore the prompt: Sustenance. First up, we have poet and Internet artist Kyle Sangdozzian, with a new piece called “How to Use a Meal Replacement.” I’m told this is a found poem composed of online writings about the taste and experience of meal replacements, including Soylent creator Rob Rhinehart’s blog posts. What a treat. Take it away, Kyle.

[Ambient music and crowd chatter fades]

Kyle: How to use a meal replacement.

[Jazz music plays in the background throughout]

Step one: Record your starting stats. By every objective measure, I am an incredibly healthy person. Body parts, waist, arm, etc. A strict diet of beige liquid fundamentally changes the patterns of your daily life. Relax. It’s just food. Couldn’t hunger be seen as a sort of chronic condition? Until now, I haven’t had any problems. I’ve eaten dozens of them. Zero issues. But I’m scared to eat the rest. I’m not trying to make something delicious. And let me be clear. My body is not a temple. I can’t recommend that you do the same. This is my last bagel. This is my last banana. This is my last scoop of ice cream.

Step two: Choose a meal replacement. Food is a haven for reactionaries. The fossil fuel of human energy. It’s a trade off, but I look forward to my next glass. I’m not super hardcore. I’d like to try another bar just for the sake of science. I live in the toilet now. I used to run less than a mile at the gym. Now I can run seven. My awareness is higher. My reflexes are improved. I’m actually in the middle of puking my guts out right now. Even my scars look better. The people around me seem sluggish. Literally shitting my brains out while typing this. My son was eating them too, and he didn’t feel sick. Do you think it may be something in my body that is causing me to have this reaction?

Step three: Calculate your serving size. Maybe it’s just me, but I find nutritional facts to be quite confusing. Do not use the recommended serving size. Everyone is different. Quick question: Do they take returns for batches that make you horribly sick? Someone said glue could have been the culprit. Why didn’t you stop eating the bars after the second time you felt ill? What government body should be informed of this? Can those of you who ate these bars two, three, four times and got sick each time, explain your reasoning? People get disappointed when I deny food that they are offering, especially if they cooked it. I’m sorry. I don’t know if it’s because I can’t allow myself to have it, but I really and genuinely feel like I don’t need food right now.

[Theme song plays]

Ozzy: Advice for and From the Future is hosted by me, Ozzy Llinas Goodman, and Julia Furlan. We’re produced by Siona Peterous. Our executive producer is Rose Eveleth. Additional production by Nathan Wizard. Spoken word poet Kyle Sangdozzian was played by Brent Rose. And thanks to all of the Internet commenters whose words I remixed into that spoken word poem. Our logo is by Frank Okay. Our theme song is by Also Also Also. You can find us on Instagram @advice4futureu. If you have a question for or from the future, you can email it to us at ask@futureadvice.club. See you in the future!